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Re: Pre Order Shipping

Postby captaintrips » Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:43 pm

uclatommy wrote:
captaintrips wrote:Uclatommy: I'm actually playing "the last of us" as we speak... Absolutely phenomenal game and end to this console generation. Really went all out... Juices out that ps3 to its max potential too!


Nice. Really wish I could play it right now, but won't get a chance to start on it until Tuesday..


Don't feel too bad... I went to the midnight release to pickup my copy.. Got home and realized I left my ps3 in our office conference room at work. All that staying up past my bedtime just to realize I had to wait till morning anyway. /facepalm

Nevertheless... My coworkers got to see it. So it all worked out.
Last edited by captaintrips on Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pre Order Shipping

Postby nikolayt » Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:43 pm

rpanderson wrote:I have a couple questions regarding the customs issues we're facing right now:

1. Who exactly is being delayed by customs? Is it everyone, just US orders, or what?

2. Can Oculus send another batch out while the one on hold is still being inspected? As in, is customs holding up EVERYONE, or just the people in that batch?


1. US only

2. Containers from the factory are coming in once ore twice a month to each distribution center (US, UK and HK). Those dev kits get through customs and then get to the distribution center where they labeled and shipped to the customers.

Therefore, if the next container arrives prior to the one that's got held up gets cleared, assuming it will clear the customs without a problem, will replace the units in the affected container, since they are unlabeled.

P.S. Orders switch to processing status usually right before container is about to arrive to the distribution center, so they can prepare the shipping labels ahead of time. Processing status also means that the information for the shipment has been sent to the distribution center for shipment and will remain in that status until the tracking information is supplied back to Oculus.

I hope this info helps to understand the process better and thanks for your patience.
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Re: Pre Order Shipping

Postby Christiaan » Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:50 pm

thanks nikolayt. Much appreciated.
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Re: Pre Order Shipping

Postby Dwayne » Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:06 pm

I know it's doubtful, but has any indication been given on the next batch to Aus?
Order Numbers being delivered lately are quite close to mine. Do want! :)
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Re: Pre Order Shipping

Postby paulybarnes » Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:08 pm

Remember when international orders were like "US is getting priority again!?!".......well....happy now world!

...going to my corner and going to cry for a few. :cry:
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Re: Pre Order Shipping

Postby HappyHimitsu » Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:09 pm

uclatommy wrote:You seem to think that US Customs has customer support infrastructure-- that they have employees who are hired to deal with calls. I don't think they're like your internet provider or credit card company where there is a designated number to call for inquiries that gets routed to a call center.

Come again friend? I am a 35 year old Man with 3 children who has dealt with customs officials enough times to know that they are human beings, protocol aside. Don't pull that self righteous tone with me unless it makes sense while you are doing it please.
uclatommy wrote: So I'm sure the idea of calling them and demanding something is absolutely ridiculous. Assuming you even get to pull someone away from their regular job and talk to them, how do you know they even have any power to pick a particular freight container among hundreds that get processed per day and have it expedited?

People are already heated up enough without your false accusations. Who said anything about demanding? Did you even read the post? Please do read it again kind fellow.
uclatommy wrote:I'm sure there are very stringent protocols that cannot be violated once something is selected for review. Otherwise the stuff that might violate trade agreements, narcotics, patents, and lots of other illegal stuff, would constantly get through the borders. And if someone could just willy-nilly say "OK, let this one through" without proper documentation and checks, then everyone working in customs would get rich off the bribes they take to pass stuff through.

Buddy, either the cheese is sliding off the cracker (no offense but I'm less than pleased with your unlettered comments, and it's how I see it) or you just don't think much before you post (this seems more likely).
Nobody said anything about 'just let this one through', where do you get off saying that?
Of course there is stringent protocols!! But aside from these protocols there are human beings that may or may not decide to keep something there depending on whether or not they give a rats rectum!
What don't you understand Man?

captaintrips wrote: I'm not trying to be overly stern or a jerky.. But I think folks are barking up the wrong tree. Theyre starting to point fingers at oculus for an issue they have little control over.

Understood cap'n, and I agree with your point completely that pointing the finger at Oculus is the wrong thing to do. I however, was not one of those people. Apologies if your comment was not directed at me.
captaintrips wrote:]I think some forget that US customs enforcement is federal homeland security and military. They are not your friend.. And they most certainly do not want to help you expedite things. It's their job to hold things up and inspect international shipments. They cause delays and hold things for weeks on end. That's what they do. They are not UPS or fedex. They are federal agents. They are the IRS of international shipments in and out of this country.

I for one, never forgot this for a moment. I think you perhaps forgot that Federal agents, as bad ass as they come, are still capable of saying 'meh, nobody seems to concerned about this so perhaps it will sit here for a little longer'. I am well aware that we will wait the amount of time that it will take regardless of what we do/say, but I really don't want it taking any longer than that, and it just may if nobody gives a damn.
captaintrips wrote:Giving them any grief will only hurt us. I just want things to continue in a uncompromising fashion and arrive in a timely manner...

I don't call respectful inquiries 'grief' whatsoever, which is the suggestion that I had made. You don't think they expect it when a shipment get's held back? I understand what you are trying to say, but you are talking about the wrong thing to the wrong guy. It's the other fellow over there who doesn't understand... :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: >>>> (Again, apologies if the ball wasn't intended for my net; It may just feel that way)

captaintrips wrote:As I believe they are working as fast as they possibly can, and doing exceptionally well under the time constraints and circumstances with the resources they have.
Are you talking about Oculus or customs? I never mentioned Oculus once in my post and you never clarified, so I would assume you mean customs?
If that is the case, I Love Mr. Rogers as much as the next guy, but I left the world of 'make believe' behind nearly 25 years ago. If you are talking about Oculus, I agree again. They stand nothing to gain from this and I believe that the majority of those working there (don't know them all so I can't really say) are a great group of people.
I suppose you never addressed your post specifically to me though, so once again I apologize if your comments were directed at somebody else.
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Re: Pre Order Shipping

Postby captaintrips » Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:22 pm

Happy... My posts were not directed at you at all. I got no beef with you :)

I was calling out those who wanted "bad publicity" upon oculus to quit blaming oculus and point fingers at the customs system if they have an issue... Which won't get them far and just cause trouble. I was also stating oculus is doing things as fast as they reasonably and legally can.

Heh.. Customs is never fast. They are of course a huge hurdle when it comes to logistics.
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Re: Pre Order Shipping

Postby HappyHimitsu » Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:29 pm

captaintrips wrote:Happy... My posts were not directed at you at all. I got no beef with you :)

I was calling out those who wanted "bad publicity" upon oculus to quit blaming oculus and point fingers at the customs system if they have an issue... Which won't get them far and just cause trouble. I was also stating oculus is doing things as fast as they reasonably and legally can.

Heh.. Customs is never fast. They are of course a huge hurdle when it comes to logistics.



Thanks cap'n (do you mind me calling you that? No worries if you don't like it.), I appreciate the friendly explanation and I do apologize for directing some of my posts at you.
I picked up some bug the last couple days and have a horrible headache and generally feel like crap.
I am somewhat prone to a little bit of 'prickyness' atm what with the circumstances and it is not my intent to be a jerk.
Not to you anyhow. I am right annoyed with uclatommy but I am nowhere near past accepting an apology.

Cheers fellow. :)
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Re: Pre Order Shipping

Postby erick » Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:40 pm

captaintrips wrote:I'm not trying to be overly stern or a jerky.. But I think folks are barking up the wrong tree. Theyre starting to point fingers at oculus for an issue they have little control over.

captaintrips, if this alleged customs issue was the only cause for delay, I am sure that far less people would be so vocal about it. The problem is that it's just one more issue in a chain of issues and misinformation on orders. Orders that most have waited over half a year for. It's fair to expect that people will get impatient and upset.

This batch flipped to "Processing" on May 28th. It was two weeks, on Tuesday, before any news of an issue was mentioned.
cybereality wrote:The reason there have been delays with the last batch is that a large pallet of Rifts got held up in customs. There is not too much we can do about this, it's out of our control. Hopefully this will all be sorted out by the end of the week, I doubt it will be much longer tha...


The blog was much more vague.
Oculus VR wrote:we’ve run into a few duty/customs snags that are holding up shipments to NA/EU, but we hope to have them sorted out soon.


Here we are at the end of the week and someone has to relay the next update from their communication with Oculus support staff. Oculus is now expecting to get this resolved next week or the week after that. No official updates.

We don't even know what is going on. cybereality said, "a large pallet of Rifts". The blog simply said they've run into "snags". What does this even mean? How many orders are affected? Are all future U.S. shipments frozen or will more shipments continue to arrive while this one batch is held? Was the U.K. issue resolved somehow?

Why is the shipping situation such a mystery?

Oculus never even provides exact shipping numbers. They know the community has desperately been trying to calculate when their shipment will arrive. Why is everyone forced to guess? Why is everything a secret?

The lack of information, when combined with inaccurate estimates, will create a frustrated community and wear on their patience.

In my opinion, Oculus should just stop providing estimates until they can reliably predict their shipment schedule. Historically, they've been unable to do so. Don't estimate the shipping date on the pre-order page. Don't claim that all orders made by April will be shipped by May. Don't even tell us that problems will be fixed this week (or next week, or the week after that). Just stick to what you know and be forthcoming as soon as issues arise. If Oculus would provide the community with some accurate shipping totals every once in awhile, the community can calculate estimates in the meantime.
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Re: Pre Order Shipping

Postby rpanderson » Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:29 pm

nikolayt wrote:
rpanderson wrote:I have a couple questions regarding the customs issues we're facing right now:

1. Who exactly is being delayed by customs? Is it everyone, just US orders, or what?

2. Can Oculus send another batch out while the one on hold is still being inspected? As in, is customs holding up EVERYONE, or just the people in that batch?


1. US only

2. Containers from the factory are coming in once ore twice a month to each distribution center (US, UK and HK). Those dev kits get through customs and then get to the distribution center where they labeled and shipped to the customers.

Therefore, if the next container arrives prior to the one that's got held up gets cleared, assuming it will clear the customs without a problem, will replace the units in the affected container, since they are unlabeled.

P.S. Orders switch to processing status usually right before container is about to arrive to the distribution center, so they can prepare the shipping labels ahead of time. Processing status also means that the information for the shipment has been sent to the distribution center for shipment and will remain in that status until the tracking information is supplied back to Oculus.

I hope this info helps to understand the process better and thanks for your patience.



Ah. Thanks very much for the quick response. This is good to know.

So, from what this suggests, the customs delay really only sets us back as far as the factory takes to resupply the units held in customs. Either the withheld batch gets cleared before the factory sends a new batch out, or the new batch replaces the old batch. And once the withheld batch does get cleared, things more or less fall back on track.

I remember reading a post saying that hopefully customs clears the packages by the end of the week (now-ish). We'll see if that happens, but what this information means is that at worst, we only have to wait a couple more weeks longer than normal, rather than wait for as long as it takes for the packages to clear, which is what I originally thought.
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Re: Pre Order Shipping

Postby Gzhindra » Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:36 pm

erick wrote:
captaintrips wrote:I'm not trying to be overly stern or a jerky.. But I think folks are barking up the wrong tree. Theyre starting to point fingers at oculus for an issue they have little control over.

captaintrips, if this alleged customs issue was the only cause for delay, I am sure that far less people would be so vocal about it. The problem is that it's just one more issue in a chain of issues and misinformation on orders. Orders that most have waited over half a year for. It's fair to expect that people will get impatient and upset.

This batch flipped to "Processing" on May 28th. It was two weeks, on Tuesday, before any news of an issue was mentioned.
cybereality wrote:The reason there have been delays with the last batch is that a large pallet of Rifts got held up in customs. There is not too much we can do about this, it's out of our control. Hopefully this will all be sorted out by the end of the week, I doubt it will be much longer tha...


The blog was much more vague.
Oculus VR wrote:we’ve run into a few duty/customs snags that are holding up shipments to NA/EU, but we hope to have them sorted out soon.


Here we are at the end of the week and someone has to relay the next update from their communication with Oculus support staff. Oculus is now expecting to get this resolved next week or the week after that. No official updates.

We don't even know what is going on. cybereality said, "a large pallet of Rifts". The blog simply said they've run into "snags". What does this even mean? How many orders are affected? Are all future U.S. shipments frozen or will more shipments continue to arrive while this one batch is held? Was the U.K. issue resolved somehow?

Why is the shipping situation such a mystery?

Oculus never even provides exact shipping numbers. They know the community has desperately been trying to calculate when their shipment will arrive. Why is everyone forced to guess? Why is everything a secret?

The lack of information, when combined with inaccurate estimates, will create a frustrated community and wear on their patience.

In my opinion, Oculus should just stop providing estimates until they can reliably predict their shipment schedule. Historically, they've been unable to do so. Don't estimate the shipping date on the pre-order page. Don't claim that all orders made by April will be shipped by May. Don't even tell us that problems will be fixed this week (or next week, or the week after that). Just stick to what you know and be forthcoming as soon as issues arise. If Oculus would provide the community with some accurate shipping totals every once in awhile, the community can calculate estimates in the meantime.


Delays are common in projects. You can't predict all the snags or walls you are going to run into. Yet it is better to have approximate information than being left in the dark. This way, at least you know something is happening. I have already seen several cases of developers who hardly communicate until they are 100% sure to deliver when they say they are only because they know they are going to get their lot of whining frustrated kids spaming their forum. It is a shame really. The issue is on your side. You need to grow up.

Btw the European custom issue is solved apparently. I received it yesterday and I'm not the only one. In the end it was only a few days issues. Not worth panicking thousands of backers. They told us waht they had to: Expect a bit of delay but it is a none issue.
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Re: Pre Order Shipping

Postby luckybarry » Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:50 pm

Rpanderson has a point. There are limited official updates or we get snippets from a reply on a thread or post on Reddit. These snippets appear reactive. Its kind of infuriating and doesn't help my perception of oculus as a company. They are doing a fantastic job on all fronts apart from one and that's delivery communications.
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Re: Pre Order Shipping

Postby Glitch1336 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 12:02 am

Thanks so much for the details nikolayt! I'm glad to hear some more information about the situation (mine is one of those stuck at customs). Fortunately I'm super busy (partly prepping my life for my Rift) so the waiting is not as bad as it would be otherwise, but still I'm dying here waiting and checking multiple times per day for updates on what is going on with my order!
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Re: Pre Order Shipping

Postby AndrewK » Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:05 am

2. Containers from the factory are coming in once ore twice a month to each distribution center (US, UK and HK). Those dev kits get through customs and then get to the distribution center where they labeled and shipped to the customers.

Do you have information about what processing center is processing what country? For example Belarus is Europe, lot of pre-orders are already delivered in Europe, but mine 2012 one is still 'ready'
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Re: Pre Order Shipping

Postby uclatommy » Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:01 am

HH,

Not trying to offend, just trying to bring people back to reality a little bit. If you were offended, sorry.

My main point is that a system created to ensure safety or enforcement of trade laws will have built into it checks and balances. For example, lets say I work at a bank and I'm handling deposits. If I also handle booking the deposit on a ledger, then I have too much authority and there is potential for moral hazard. If someone deposits $100, I can book $50 in the ledger, put $50 in my pocket and $50 into the vault and no one would know. Now if there were a separation of duties, say for example you are responsible for recording the amount of the deposit, and I'm responsible for collecting the deposit, then it is less likely that any of that deposit will end up in someone's pocket rather than inside the vault. This helps to eliminate moral hazard.

Systems such as our customs and border protections are designed with such checks and balances in mind so any one person cannot subvert the system and allow laws to be broken without some else knowing about it. Yeah, they are human beings, but I doubt any one person can just let some packages through without getting into some serious trouble, and potentially lose his job.

At the airport, maybe. That's not so stringent. But in an operation handling commercial shipping and freight, it's likely a different story. So this notion that we can just call them up and beg for something is not really realistic. It doesn't matter who you get a hold of. It's out of their hands. It has to run its course through the system.
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Re: Pre Order Shipping

Postby mrsatz » Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:48 am

uclatommy wrote:HH,

Not trying to offend, just trying to bring people back to reality a little bit. If you were offended, sorry.

My main point is that a system created to ensure safety or enforcement of trade laws will have built into it checks and balances. For example, lets say I work at a bank and I'm handling deposits. If I also handle booking the deposit on a ledger, then I have too much authority and there is potential for moral hazard. If someone deposits $100, I can book $50 in the ledger, put $50 in my pocket and $50 into the vault and no one would know. Now if there were a separation of duties, say for example you are responsible for recording the amount of the deposit, and I'm responsible for collecting the deposit, then it is less likely that any of that deposit will end up in someone's pocket rather than inside the vault. This helps to eliminate moral hazard.

Systems such as our customs and border protections are designed with such checks and balances in mind so any one person cannot subvert the system and allow laws to be broken without some else knowing about it. Yeah, they are human beings, but I doubt any one person can just let some packages through without getting into some serious trouble, and potentially lose his job.

At the airport, maybe. That's not so stringent. But in an operation handling commercial shipping and freight, it's likely a different story. So this notion that we can just call them up and beg for something is not really realistic. It doesn't matter who you get a hold of. It's out of their hands. It has to run its course through the system.


I think the other point is that people can expedite the process if they know there is someone at the other end waiting for the shipment. All systems have snags, and having a person look into it may help it get through those snags quicker. It's not about bypassing the system, it's about getting government bureaucracy to move just a little faster.

Think about it, if drug cartel smugglers have a package held up in customs. They are not calling to get information about it. They will probably deny all ties to it. So if someone is calling about a shipment, then they are probably a legitimate company or person and will be treated as such.
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Re: Pre Order Shipping

Postby Indigotravel » Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:56 am

Got the shipping mail today!
It has been shipping for two days from UK and will arrive Stockholm, Sweden on monday!
Order #044763 :D

After all this wait!
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Re: Pre Order Shipping

Postby jasonatokc » Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:27 am

nikolayt wrote:
rpanderson wrote:I have a couple questions regarding the customs issues we're facing right now:

1. Who exactly is being delayed by customs? Is it everyone, just US orders, or what?

2. Can Oculus send another batch out while the one on hold is still being inspected? As in, is customs holding up EVERYONE, or just the people in that batch?


1. US only

2. Containers from the factory are coming in once ore twice a month to each distribution center (US, UK and HK). Those dev kits get through customs and then get to the distribution center where they labeled and shipped to the customers.

Therefore, if the next container arrives prior to the one that's got held up gets cleared, assuming it will clear the customs without a problem, will replace the units in the affected container, since they are unlabeled.

P.S. Orders switch to processing status usually right before container is about to arrive to the distribution center, so they can prepare the shipping labels ahead of time. Processing status also means that the information for the shipment has been sent to the distribution center for shipment and will remain in that status until the tracking information is supplied back to Oculus.

I hope this info helps to understand the process better and thanks for your patience.


Thanks for the info :)
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Re: Pre Order Shipping

Postby jasonatokc » Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:39 am

well to those saying they need to be able to know when you package will arrive look at my previous post as it appears once your order changes to processing you can goto ups site and track w/ updates from ups via email or text.
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Re: Pre Order Shipping

Postby Species5618 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:44 am

Finaly got my oculus rift yesterday, although i just got shipped status today?.. odd :)

I actually had the Shipping Rift Box sitting for 2 hours in my livingroom as i thought it was something else. We where expecting a new UPC TV Cable Box, as the orginal had broken down.

So i walked along the box again thinking i need to connect it while just reading the words (on the box) Oculus...
Now words Oculus are rooming in my mind, thinking.. hey that a very familiar word...

The next second i managed to take it, ran up 2 stairs, unpacked it along the way up... and hook it up :).

Anyway,

it's very cool, and yes the resolution is low but i agree with many that it is not a big limiting factor. Because you are so immersed the resolution seems to have less of a impact and you gain depth and size. it's morelike you are there watching through some "honeycomb grid" glases.

Saying that, a full HD version would be fantastic!

Hope you guys get your rift soon.

cheers

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