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Oculus Rift + Wall Street = The future of Stock Traders.

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Oculus Rift + Wall Street = The future of Stock Traders.

Postby matthewcdowell » Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:30 pm

I don't think I need to explain much more given the context of the Rift.
http://www.vincentabry.com/en/day-trading-geek-248

I have been trading on the stock market for several years now and dabbled in day trading for a few months somewhere along the way. When I saw the Oculus Rift in August last year it only took me a day or two to piece to two worlds together.

If you ask me, the Rift is a natural fit. Anyone else thought the same thing? I am very interested in hearing your take of a Rift-based GUI (they call them trade stations) for stock traders.
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Re: Oculus Rift + Wall Street = The future of Stock Traders.

Postby LaurentMT » Fri Jun 21, 2013 6:31 pm

Hi Matthew,

I'm convinced that data viz will be (or become) a real market for VR.

Concerning stocks traders, in theory the idea is seducing. I can imagine a trader on a rotating chair watching all his virtual screens. But I fear it's a bit too early to implement a pratical solution. The main potential issues I can see are :
- low resolution of screen (at least for numbers),
- problem of the input device (I imagine that having to blindly look for the physical keyboard of the correct key on the keyboard would be a no-go for a system like this one),
- I'm not sure it would be confortable to wear a VR headset all day long, everyday.

Of course it's just my vision and I could be wrong. And anyway, technologies will evolve... so who knows ?
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Re: Oculus Rift + Wall Street = The future of Stock Traders.

Postby newreality » Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:39 am

I thought this thread was about something else at first sight. Here's what I'm wondering....when will I be able to buy stock in Oculus? I believe this device is poised to become one of the biggest pieces of hardware in history and I want to buy as much stock in it as possible.
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Re: Oculus Rift + Wall Street = The future of Stock Traders.

Postby klasodeth » Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:25 am

newreality wrote:I thought this thread was about something else at first sight. Here's what I'm wondering....when will I be able to buy stock in Oculus? I believe this device is poised to become one of the biggest pieces of hardware in history and I want to buy as much stock in it as possible.

If you can buy stock in the company, so can heartless investors that only care about maximizing the return on their investment. If Oculus VR must go public in order to grow, so be it. But I'd rather the company stay private so that the company can focus on its vision--not what will satisfy shareholders.
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Re: Oculus Rift + Wall Street = The future of Stock Traders.

Postby nightscar » Sat Jun 22, 2013 9:25 am

klasodeth wrote:
newreality wrote:I thought this thread was about something else at first sight. Here's what I'm wondering....when will I be able to buy stock in Oculus? I believe this device is poised to become one of the biggest pieces of hardware in history and I want to buy as much stock in it as possible.

If you can buy stock in the company, so can heartless investors that only care about maximizing the return on their investment. If Oculus VR must go public in order to grow, so be it. But I'd rather the company stay private so that the company can focus on its vision--not what will satisfy shareholders.


But..I want MOOOOONNNEYYYYYYYYYYYY!
and if u think oculus don't care atm about there bottom line your a fool.
money is what makes the world turn and gets things done..
maybe not so much luckey.. but the rest of the company I see $$ in there eyes when they talk lol
order number 057xxx
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Re: Oculus Rift + Wall Street = The future of Stock Traders.

Postby Madaras » Sat Jun 22, 2013 10:28 am

klasodeth wrote:
newreality wrote:I thought this thread was about something else at first sight. Here's what I'm wondering....when will I be able to buy stock in Oculus? I believe this device is poised to become one of the biggest pieces of hardware in history and I want to buy as much stock in it as possible.

If you can buy stock in the company, so can heartless investors that only care about maximizing the return on their investment. If Oculus VR must go public in order to grow, so be it. But I'd rather the company stay private so that the company can focus on its vision--not what will satisfy shareholders.


Let's not go public, let's leave the stock only open to us Devs!That way the company is owned by the passionate among us!
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Re: Oculus Rift + Wall Street = The future of Stock Traders.

Postby matthewcdowell » Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:47 am

LaurentMT wrote:Hi Matthew,

I'm convinced that data viz will be (or become) a real market for VR.

Concerning stocks traders, in theory the idea is seducing. I can imagine a trader on a rotating chair watching all his virtual screens. But I fear it's a bit too early to implement a pratical solution. The main potential issues I can see are :
- low resolution of screen (at least for numbers),
- problem of the input device (I imagine that having to blindly look for the physical keyboard of the correct key on the keyboard would be a no-go for a system like this one),
- I'm not sure it would be confortable to wear a VR headset all day long, everyday.

Of course it's just my vision and I could be wrong. And anyway, technologies will evolve... so who knows ?


I understand there are still challenges, namely being the resolution and having your eyes so close to a screen for so long. Good news with length of time is that it stock trading is only done from 9:30am - 4:30pm which if you think about the standard amount of time people are stuck in front of a computer this doesn't seem so bad.

I would just be interested what kind of GUI would be the best implementation. I know that I'd prefer 1 VR headset to having 20 monitors. Between difference in power usage, weight, heat generation, and the ability to change the layout without actually physically modifying the hardware...
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Re: Oculus Rift + Wall Street = The future of Stock Traders.

Postby klasodeth » Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:00 pm

nightscar wrote:But..I want MOOOOONNNEYYYYYYYYYYYY!
and if u think oculus don't care atm about there bottom line your a fool.
money is what makes the world turn and gets things done..
maybe not so much luckey.. but the rest of the company I see $$ in there eyes when they talk lol

I didn't says that Oculus VR isn't interested in money, of course they are. But there's a big difference between a company that's heavily invested in its own success, and investors that don't really care what happens with the company so long as their quarterly statements look good. Investors that think solely in terms of money often force companies to make short-sighted decisions that can be harmful in the long run. And all too often, investors don't care how a company makes money--as long as it's making enough money to satisfy expectations. As soon at that company under-performs, the investor pulls the money out and invests it elsewhere. Since a private company is invested in its own success, it can make the decisions it needs to without having to worry about sending investors fleeing over the slightest sign of trouble.
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Re: Oculus Rift + Wall Street = The future of Stock Traders.

Postby LaurentMT » Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:01 pm

matthewcdowell wrote:Good news with length of time is that it stock trading is only done from 9:30am - 4:30pm

And I thought that traders were working hard. :o
Even french people work more than that ! ;)

matthewcdowell wrote:I would just be interested what kind of GUI would be the best implementation. I know that I'd prefer 1 VR headset to having 20 monitors. Between difference in power usage, weight, heat generation, and the ability to change the layout without actually physically modifying the hardware...

For me, this is the very good point of your idea. With head tracking, a unique HMD could replace several displays. As you wrote, since the environment becomes virtual and totally digital, you'll gain a lot in flexibility and it opens many possibilities in term of improvement of the processes (rearranging displays very quickly according to priorities becomes very easy, ...). The sky is the limit. The best GUI will depend on the specificities of the activity. Unfortunately, I don't know it enough to propose concrete solutions, but for sure, the subject would be exciting.

If we forget the subject of screen resolution, according to me, what you should take into account are all the specificities of the new solution and their consequences on the activity (positive or negative). For example, a specificity of an HMD is that you become blind to your "real" environment. This is why I said that this solution implies to have good solutions for data input. If the activity has a collaborative part (for example, some quick and informal exchanges with others traders) you must be sure that your solution still allows this kind of collaboration in a same effective way.

For my work, I try to always apply a principle that I call the principle of least action for UX design : "All others things being equal, among several alternatives to achieve a goal, a person will choose the alternative that minimizes the effort required or maximizes his comfort."
You can also translate this in a more business oriented principle : "If all the consequences of a new solution are globally positive and if there is no negative consequence which is a no-go, it means that you're ready to create a new business."

In conclusion, challenging but exciting idea !
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Re: Oculus Rift + Wall Street = The future of Stock Traders.

Postby matthewcdowell » Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:45 pm

For my work, I try to always apply a principle that I call the principle of least action for UX design : "All others things being equal, among several alternatives to achieve a goal, a person will choose the alternative that minimizes the effort required or maximizes his comfort."
You can also translate this in a more business oriented principle : "If all the consequences of a new solution are globally positive and if there is no negative consequence which is a no-go, it means that you're ready to create a new business."

In conclusion, challenging but exciting idea !



I think you've understood my point quite well, the abstract description you've provided is more evidence of such. Do you know anyone in this specialization? User Interface integration can be a severely complex topic, especially when talking about integrating real-time stock data. (where with stock traders... losing even fractions of a second can equate to losing tens of thousands)
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Re: Oculus Rift + Wall Street = The future of Stock Traders.

Postby LaurentMT » Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:53 pm

Well, I don't know him personnaly but I think that someone like Ron George would be your man. He's a former UX designer at Microsoft, Bloomberg, ...

For sure, the subject is complex. It's a mix of technology, ergonomics, psychology, ...
Some years ago, my company had brainstormed on the opportunity to use touchscreens for trading. It appeared that this was a no-go : latency of touchscreens is still too high for traders. :roll:
I also remember this good article about the difficulty to introduce innovations in the sector, a must-read : http://uxmag.com/articles/the-impossible-bloomberg-makeover
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Re: Oculus Rift + Wall Street = The future of Stock Traders.

Postby Dickens81 » Sat Nov 16, 2013 3:32 pm

I totally agree with nightscar. Let me know if the stock is open for buy. I have a full of faith in oculus project. :D :D :D :D
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Re: Oculus Rift + Wall Street = The future of Stock Traders.

Postby Madaras » Sat Nov 16, 2013 3:53 pm

Yes. I agree that stock should be on a private market where only passionate enthusiast should own. Let's say a requirement of 100 post should be enough to prove enthusiasm!
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Re: Oculus Rift + Wall Street = The future of Stock Traders.

Postby raidho36 » Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:33 am

I beleive that modifying your rotating chair a little to have your coffee holder and keyboard would be just right thing. Even if the Rift was incapable of detecting the objects (a keyboard), you can still calibrate your environment precisely that your 3d keyboard in VR precisely in place of your physical keyboard, so it's only a matter of learning to place your hands onto keyboard blindly. If the Rift could detect a keyboard rectangle, adjusting VR 3d keyboard position is a breeze.

For most of the interface interaction, a large volume leapmotion kind of device would be good, I beleive, as long as the interface has enough buttons to operate with it quickly and without using the keyboard. One possible solution is to separate a window from it's toolbar - about the only solution usable within these conditions. You can, e.g. place the large dashboard with dynamically changing buttons layout (which preferably contains buttons for ALL actions you can possibly do, that's gonna be one large dashboard, but what do you care) depending on which window the operator operate. Having toolbar right on the window makes good sense on PC because you only have one mouse and it isn't exactly convenient to move it around a lot. But with hands tracking, you essentially got two fivefold pointing devices, one on the window and other on the dashboard, so that's no problem. If you're using hotkeys instead of toolbar - it even would be essentially the same, but maybe more convenient since there's icons rather than just letter labeled buttons, and that you wouldn't have to press ctrl+shift and such combos, you can instead just have more buttons. Having dashboard content being dynamic also allows avoiding being overly complex - some windows have actions that other windows do not, so unusable ATM buttons are removed, and for every unique window there's same unique layout so you can just remember it quickly. This also saves a lot of space for the windows themselves - no need to place load of buttons on the window itself. Not that you'd want to operate on two windows simultaneously - you normally do that one after another. So while your operation hand moves to another window, your dash hand adusts for that window's layout to press the right button quickly. In that perspective, it would also make a lot of sense to make a physical curved dashboard onto which your hands could rest, and that could have huge array of engraved button shaped blocks into it so you can use tactile senses to fine adjust fingers position. The buttons may as well be physical buttons which simplifies hands tracking and makes better tactile sensory feedback. This way you can also implement dash-keyboard, which will just by definition fit perfectly into VR controls, and also eliminating the need for any hardware that can create difficulties, see above about keyboard bolted to the chair.

But that's just my quick shot on the topic. I can't even estimate whether or not it's gonna work well. Although, having toolbar separated from window seems to be bright idea.
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Re: Oculus Rift + Wall Street = The future of Stock Traders.

Postby Fredz » Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:30 pm

LaurentMT wrote:
matthewcdowell wrote:Good news with length of time is that it stock trading is only done from 9:30am - 4:30pm

And I thought that traders were working hard. :o
Even french people work more than that ! ;)

Actually 7 hours ( 9:30am to 4:30pm) is exactly the legal duration of the working day in France (35-hour workweek).
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Re: Oculus Rift + Wall Street = The future of Stock Traders.

Postby KBK » Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:25 pm

For this thread's premise to be of value, you'd have to make computer based stock trading illegal, with penalties that are akin to a mandatory death penalty, for all involved.

Ever since computer based trading systems were allowed (or were found to exist), there really hasn't been a stock market. just one giant manipulation of an algorithm..
Intelligence... is not inherent - it is a point in understanding. Q: When does a fire become self sustaining?
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Re: Oculus Rift + Wall Street = The future of Stock Traders.

Postby raidho36 » Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:07 am

What's wrong with getting machines to do hard stuff for you?
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